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Question of the Week: Should Public Money be Used to Fund Private Schools with Explicit Anti-Gay Policies?

This week's question centers around public funds going towards private schools that have explicit, severe anti-gay policies.

 


Earlier this year a group called the Southern Education Foundation (SEF) released a report indicating that some scholarship money generated through a Georgia tax credit program has been used at religious schools that ban gay, lesbian and bisexual students.

The report states,

At least 115 private schools participating in Georgia’s tax-funded scholarship program have explicit, severe anti-gay policies or belong to state and national private school associations that promote anti-gay policies and practices among their members.

While SEF did not take issue with the policies of private religious schools, it did have a problem with tax dollars going to schools that discriminate against some people. Tax money, the group said in its report, should go to schools that educate all students.

Click the PDF to the right of this article to read the entire report.

Just last week the Georgia Senate Education and Youth Committee unanimously endorsed legislation intended to strengthen a state tax credit scholarship program.

Senate Bill 243 heads to the Senate for a full vote. If passed, it would "give preferences to students with financial needs," according to a copy of the legislation available on the Georgia General Assembly's website.

This brings us to our Question of the Week:

Should public money be used to fund private schools with explicit anti-gay policies?

Related Topics: Private Schools, Southern Education Foundation, State Funding, and homosexuality

Kathleen

1:32 pm on Monday, March 11, 2013

NO it should not. Parents who send their children to private schools pay a tuition, which should be partly applied to the school funding. Or they should find private donors that share the same views. I do not want my money as a public school parent to go to anything that discriminates against another. Public money should go to public schools

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Kelley Burns

9:46 am on Wednesday, March 13, 2013

Kathleen, You hit my views direct to point. I agree completely. Kelley

String Bean

3:31 pm on Monday, March 11, 2013

Misleading question. People get a tax credit for donating money to a scholarship program. That money (which is NOT tax money) goes to pay the child's tuition at the private school their choice. The money follows the child, and the moral beliefs of the school chosen are nobody's business. These are NOT dollars taken from public education. In fact, with less children attending public school because of this program, the public school have more money per child to spend. Whoever wrote this question needs to go back to school.

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Liz Kennedy

5:22 pm on Monday, March 11, 2013

@String Bean,

We welcome the opinions and comments of our readers on Patch, as long as it does not violate our terms of use http://www.patch.com/terms.

And just for the record, I wrote the question based on information from stories written by my colleagues.

Liz Kennedy,
Editor, Cumming Patch

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People are Crazy

11:13 am on Wednesday, March 13, 2013

I am against NO ONE being discriminated against, but I do see this question and article is biased. "And just for the record" isn't a very professional response.

People should be allowed his or her own views and beliefs. Period. Pretty soon Amish will not be allowed to teach their own children because their beliefs do not coincide with the rest of society, or Indians on reservations because the teach about the world of spirits and their ancestors. Do they get government grants (tax money)?

If the people get a tax credit for contributing to these schools, should that truly be counted as"taxpayer money" when in fact the State never had the money to start with? I would think the money currently in your pocket is your money. It isn't the State's (taxpayer money) until you send a check to them and they put it into their bank account.

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String Bean

5:22 pm on Wednesday, March 13, 2013

Liz, with all due respect - why the terms of use notice to me? I can see nothing in my comment that would have violated anything?

Scrumpty a la cart

5:33 pm on Monday, March 11, 2013

I mean this MOSTLY tongue in cheek. But not completely.

Most PUBLIC schools in this country have "explicit" PRO-gay policies. Shouldn't this be seen as a somewhat hypocritical?

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strangerindanger

7:46 pm on Monday, March 11, 2013

There is nothing as "Pro-gay". It basically means that these schools are treating everyone with the same respect regardless of their choices or the way they are born. On the other hand, if you are explicitly "anti-gay" you are violating the constitution.

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Frank Jones

10:25 pm on Monday, March 11, 2013

Scrumpty...Really? Are you that homophobic or just that dumb? Public schools don't have "pro-gay" policies, that have non-discrimination policies! Public schools are for the public, the entire public which is comprised of many people which you probably discriminate against...homosexuals, transgender, Asian, Hispanics, Jewish, Polish, and black.

We are a country of many peoples and public facilities are open to all of them. Schools that discriminate or make conditions unbearable for the public should not benefit from public mis-directed tax dollars.

Should 501(c)3 private schools that advocate the woman's place in in the home, barefoot and pregnant be eligible to receive SSO funds? Should private schools that teach creationism be eligible to receive public money? Should a private school that is open to all students but has a policy prohibiting straight students be allowed funds from the SSO?

Obviously these questions are stupid...But so is the whole SSO program and your concepts of "explicit PRO-gay policies.

Frank Jones

10:13 pm on Monday, March 11, 2013

String Bean...You my friend are the one who needs to go back to school. The SSO program was written as an endgame around the prohibition of public tax dollars funding private school education. In general, we have always been able to donate money to a qualifying Section 501(c)3 charitable organization which many private schools are. As a charitable donation, a taxpayer has always been able to reduce his/her federal and state tax liabilities.

Under the SSO program implemented by Georgia, the taxpayer not only reduces his/her federal tax liability but also receives a dollar for dollar offset against his/her state tax liability instead of a 6% reduction.

In addition, you believe that this is merely a case of the money following the child to the private school of his/her choice. Under federal and state laws, it is illegal to claim a charitable donation AND specify to whom the money is awarded. That is one of the noted problems with GA's SSO program. Private schools have been awarding scholarships to specific donor's children. Further, many people would not want their donations going to schools with anti-gay policies, and yet, once they make the SSO donation, the money can go whereever the SSO wants it to go. There is no reporting to prove otherwise.

Lastly, keep in mind that there is no prohibition from a Muslim backed private school that has anti-American policies from participating in the SSO program. Do you want your tax dollars going there?

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Steven Leach

10:43 pm on Monday, March 11, 2013

I don't think any tax dollars should be given to private schools whether they have anti-gay policies or not. If you can afford to send your child to a private school I think that's great, but leave the tax dollars to the public schools.

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Jackie Irish

11:32 am on Tuesday, March 12, 2013

That's my feeling. Private is private. Public is public. Could I get DOD money for my private army?

Frank Jones

12:16 pm on Tuesday, March 12, 2013

Or police money for my neighborhood's private force?

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Chris Graves

2:55 am on Wednesday, March 13, 2013

I went to public schools. My kids went to public schools. I can tell you from personal experience that if I could afford it I would choose a private school in a heartbeat. Regardless of the anti-gay stance or no stance at all, it's really about education. Public schools are afraid because private schools give kids a better education, period. That is a fact, just look at the grades. Matter of fact homeschoolers do better than public schools. These parents are paying county school taxes and get nothing in return for it. So, just give me a break from the greedy, selfishness. Better yet, give these parents the deduction on their property taxes, then you can complain.

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Jackie Irish

8:19 am on Wednesday, March 13, 2013

Private schools give kids a better education for a variety of reasons but mainly because they have the money for smaller class-sizes and can accept or reject students as they see fit. Public schools must take all kids and work with only the money our brilliantly foresighted government decides is enough. Yes, for an individual child, a private education is statistically a better route. But most families aren't in a financial position to take that route. For better or worse, public education is the only option for the majority of kids. That's why it's crucial we do not divert any public money to private institutions. And as for people paying county school taxes and 'getting nothing in return for it' an educated population is a benefit to all of us, our economy and the future of our nation. Lastly, our right to complain is guaranteed by the first amendment (of course, so is your right to complain about us complaining).

Frank Jones

7:20 am on Wednesday, March 13, 2013

Chris, not all private schools perform better than public schools. But even if private schools performed better than public schools, the comparison is flawed. Private school population is comprised of a small subset of the general population. This subset is atypical in that most are from high income and probably, higher educated backgrounds than the population as a whole.

The real difference between private and public is that public has to take ALL children no matter their mental, physical, racial, economic, religious or gender background.

If you want to pay for your child's private education, go ahead but use your own money. If instead, you want public money to subsidize your child's education, go to public schools.

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Chris Graves

8:23 am on Wednesday, March 13, 2013

Frank, you state the obvious. My point was, those who choose private school are paying for public school through property taxes that they shouldn't be forced to pay. All the while public schools get funding through Federal, State, and local governments and they still fall well below world standards. Public schools, as a whole, are failing our kids and should be held accountable. Instead we get questions like this from the SEF to distract from its total failure.

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Jackie Irish

11:31 am on Wednesday, March 13, 2013

Maybe the problem Chris is that you say "your point" is that people who "choose private school are paying for public school through property taxes that they shouldn't be forced to pay," but then you keep circling back to a completely different point that public schools are failing. If you don't want people to respond to some or any of your other points, stick to one.

But, to address your point:
I don't know where you got the idea that our government services were a la carte or that we each individually get to decide which parts of our government services we want to pay for, but that's not how a democracy works.

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Common Sense

7:38 pm on Wednesday, March 13, 2013

Saying public education is 'a total failure' is painting with a pretty broad brush, don't you think, Chris? I am a product of public education, and am thankful for where it has taken me, and my spouse, in our lives. My children are receiving an excellent public education in Cherokee, as are thousands of others. Does every public school succeed at the same rate? Obviously not. Much like all other school options - private, charter, hybrids and the likes. There is no 'silver lining' in education. It starts in the home, but that's a whole new can of worms.

In all, we can't divert our tax dollars in any other aspect - hiring our own private security doesn't relieve us of our taxes for law enforcement, and installing sprinkler systems in our homes doesn't negate our liability to help pay for fire rescue. Why on earth should our education dollars be diverted elsewhere based on our personal choices? An educated populace is a benefit for ALL, period.

Andrew Blawat

9:58 am on Wednesday, March 13, 2013

Public money should be used to fund private schools with whatever type of policies the parents want. Time to disassemble the public school system in order to get higher quality education at a lessor price.

http://www.open.georgia.gov/sta/search.aud shows what teachers in the public system get paid.

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Common Sense

7:42 pm on Wednesday, March 13, 2013

'Lessor'? REALLY?

PS) Google 'Andrew Blawat' - do you make it a habit of posting on Patches all over God's green earth as a personal hobby, or as a paid blogger? One has to wonder.

People are Crazy

10:43 am on Wednesday, March 13, 2013

Wasn't this decided with the last election when we voted on the Charter School issue, or is that something entirely different?

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r patton

12:36 pm on Wednesday, March 13, 2013

First of all, taxpayer monies should not be going to private schools. Students in grades 1-12 don't really give a rats A _ _ if a classmate is gay, lesbian or a druid. It appears the parents, administrators and politicians are "whipping" this issue to a frenzy and THEY are the problem. As long as public monies are not used to, for lack of a better word, "make things different" for ANY student (i.e. special classes, rooms etc.) for these students, who cares?

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Chris Graves

1:12 pm on Wednesday, March 13, 2013

Jackie, they may be two points but they go hand in hand. The reason, a lot if not most, choose private schools is because of the failing school system. Thanks for the lesson on democracy. Your right, we don't get to pick and choose what we have to pay for. That sounds like socialism. Your right on the point that I wouldn't want to pay for your private army or Franks private police force. One more point to confuse you even more. I consider myself a team player and have never complained about what the government does with taxes. Surely we all have more common ground than we have differences. Feel free to comment on any point. I'll try not to take it personally, and none of my comments are to be taken as a personal attack. I love everybody equally.

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Hal Schneider

5:37 pm on Wednesday, March 13, 2013

Unfortunately, we, the public, don't get to decide where our tax dollars are spent. If we did, there are many programs that I would stop long before this one. It is clear from many of the responses, that many "sheeple" will try to do whatever they can to prop up the failing public school systems of this country, and prevent the growth of charter and private schools regardless of the facts. There is no one-size-fits-all educational system, yet the establishment wants you to believe that when it comes to public education. We need as many alternatives as we can possibly come up with and support financially! Competition breeds excellence!

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Common Sense

7:48 pm on Wednesday, March 13, 2013

Hal, what about the public schools that are NOT failing? It's become blatantly OBVIOUS that there is an attack on public education across the board, not just 'failing systems.' I am pretty dang sick of my kids having furlough days each year, along with growing class sizes, in a system that I BELIEVE IN and want my kids to STAY IN. When will Mr. Governor REWARD the working systems and stop the austerity cut nonsense? Answer: half past never. It's the Republican Way!

Hal Schneider

9:53 pm on Wednesday, March 13, 2013

Yes, the public school system is working is some places, but it's precious few. I'm not advocating throwing the baby out with the bath water. I said "we need as many alternatives as we can possibly come up with", including public schools. Where it works, it should be kept, however, the Federal and State governments need to get out of it completely! Local control is the only way to run ANY school, public or otherwise.

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KacyWills

3:49 am on Thursday, March 14, 2013

The bill itself is biased in that preference is given to students with financial need. Perhaps taxpayers would like to see funding go to students who excel in their studies. Perhaps taxpayers would prefer funding be directed to stidents within youth detention centers. Perhaps ESL students are more deserving. Such funding must be dispersed equally, regardless of the recipient's need or affiliation, in order for taxpayer funds to be fairly distributed without bias.

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People are Crazy

12:03 pm on Thursday, March 14, 2013

Folks we aren't talking about true tax money here. Do you not understand that? You are debating the wrong issue.

This is about contributions to a scholarship fund being tax deductible. NOT about private schools getting public funds. Should be punished because of what education decisions parents made? (Where to send them to school).

Would you rather people, who are financially able to contribute to this fund, STOP their contributions? Thereby taking scholarship money away from low income students? They can simply put their money directly into a fund created only for students of private schools or whatever they want if there is no incentive to put it into the fund by way of a tax deduction No one forcing them to contribute to this. That is why it is not TAXPAYER money. If it were taxes it would be what you are debating, but it isn't. This is a question about tax deductions.

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Frank Jones

8:05 am on Friday, March 15, 2013

People are Crazy...I love your alias, but you're crazy if you don't think this is state tax money. This isn't about people contributing to a scholarship program for the poor to attend private schools. As the law is currently written, there are no income requirements for awarding scholarships. As I've started before, people were always able to contribute to 501c3 programs before this law was passed, but now they get a dollar for dollar offset against their state liability instead of a 6% charitable reduction. There is a huge difference between 6% and 100% and it's interesting that the law doesn't apply to public schools as well.

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Thomas Laney

10:45 am on Friday, March 15, 2013

NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no way should tax payers pay for private schools under any circumstance

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People are Crazy

11:15 am on Friday, March 15, 2013

I do not think any money is State money until they collect it from the people and it is there for the State to spend. I suppose in YOUR view that makes me crazy. Everyone is crazy, just to what extent. Are there any 501(c)3 plans for low income students? Did I state THIS? Read my post again. That is not what I said.
No one should be punished for their sexuality or spiritual choices, but I am for the FREEDOM OF RELIGION and the FREEDOM of the government to keep their freaking hands out of my pocket, home and my personal decisions. They should not be allowed to say what someone should and should not believe. PERIOD. They do it daily by controlling purse strings. If something is available to all, let it be available to all. At what point does reverse discrimination start? Should people no longer get credit for their deductions to churches that teach the Bible?

If we are going to argue 6% or 100% (that IS a different topic by the way) let's just stop ALL 501(c)3 deductions. Let's stop the tax deductions to the SEF which wrote this report, which IS a 501(c)3 (that likely names itself so closely to the entity that accredits schools so as to validate biased reports like this one so that people will think it comes from SAC, instead of this private liberal watchdog group).

I agree with you on one thing you said. People should get a deduction for contributing to public schools (via their school tax on property), especially people who no longer have children in school. :)

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Frank Jones

1:54 pm on Sunday, March 17, 2013

People are Crazy...In respect to your question about 501(c)3 plans for low income students, you DID allude to that when you stated "Would you rather people, who are financially able to...STOP their contributions? Thereby taking scholarship money away from low income students?" The general premise of your statement shows that you believe that the SSO program is to benefit low income students, but that is not the case.

Your belief that state money isn't the state's money until it actually collect it, is also wrong. The state income tax rate is 6% and the state can spend the money in advance of the state actually collecting it...and I suspect you'd agree that that tax revenue is legitimately the state's money even if a tax cheat underpays his fair share by inflating his deductions or simply failing to file or pay.

The 6% vs 100% discussion isn't a different topic, it is the key feature of the SSO program. And that's the problem in that it gives preferential treatment to private school contributions over public school contributions. For instance, if you pay $2500 to an SSO, you get a 100% state tax credit. If instead, you pay $2500 for schools via property tax (which is an allowed deduction on your tax return), you only receive a 6% tax deduction of $150. The last I checked, $2500 is much greater than $150.

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People are Crazy

12:15 pm on Monday, March 18, 2013

I alluded to the fact, if there is no tax deduction for contributing to a certain"charity" which is basically what it comes down to, people will find LEGAL means of distributing contributions where they will get credit for it. In my opinion there is NOTHING with choosing to donate part of your too charity rather giving it to the State in taxes. IT IS LEGAL. I love how since we do not agree you try to act as if I am a tax cheat and condone such behavior. You probably file straight 1040 and take no deductions offered you at all. Or does that make anyone that uses deductions offered tax cheats? These are LEGAL tax deductions that fund this program.why you being personal and mean? You must be a unhappy person.

What is the basis of awarding a scholarship from SSO? This report does not seek to change the 6 v 100. So I disagree it is the topic. It likely does need to be changed but that isn't the topic of this report or article.

Chatwithchuck

2:36 pm on Saturday, March 16, 2013

Of course not; homosexuality is not a learned behavior. You think your kid is going to be taught something in school that turns them gay? They may be taught to be tolerant of others but that message would not change their sexuality. You are or you are not gay; parents, school, churches or governments aren't going to influence someone to change that. It may give them to courage to be who they are without fear of being philologically abused by intolerant parents, schools, churches and governments.

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Scrumpty a la cart

3:48 pm on Saturday, March 16, 2013

To Frank Jones.

What has become obvious from you posts here you are someone who is only interested in preserving the status quo when it comes to "educating" America's future generations.

I, personally, am appalled at the amount of money this country spends indoctrinating good little worker bees in this country who's sole "contribution" to society is to be Walmart employees. Now we need Walmart employees but we also need independent thinkers who will help keep this the most free, productive and innovating country on the planet.

Government schools need competition in order to remain competitive. Let the money follow the child. Let competition, as it does in business, make America's schools the envy of the world they once were.

They are NOT, in my opinion, now.

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Frank Jones

1:42 pm on Sunday, March 17, 2013

Scrumpty...The "obvious" problem with some people is that they are so wrapped up in their philosophical beliefs that they cannot see the obvious. You and I have different starting points and you attribute certain "obvious" beliefs to me based upon your beliefs. Have I lost you?

Your viewpoint that "government schools" are only good at "indoctrinating good little worker bees" for menial jobs in a sign of your ignorance and bias. Our "Government schools" have a distinguished history of producing some of the finest modern minds in history. Our "Government schools" produce independent thinkers who perform at high standards in medicine, law, business, and every other profession. But in your viewpoint, our schools produce mindless workers capable of only mundane tasks...How wrong you are! For instance, the Cherokee County School District is 12th in the nation for the % of seniors passing the 2012 AP tests (CCSD students took 2,730 tests with a passing rate of 80%). These high school students have performed well enough to receive college credit! (So much for producing "worker bees".)

Lastly, your opinion that government schools need competition is a biased opinion not based in facts. There are no FACTS that show that competition in public education improves education. Instead there are facts that show that alternative schools consolidate top students giving the false appearance of success.

Patricia Saye

5:47 pm on Saturday, March 16, 2013

Kathleen, you hit my views directly to the point. I completely agree with you

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Nurse Betty

9:28 am on Sunday, March 17, 2013

My first time reading discussion forums here on The Canton Patch. I've enjoyed and relied on the page as a good source of up-to-date local news.
While reading through these posts just now, one glaring discrepancy stands out. The editor of the Cumming Patch admonished one poster, including a link to the Patch terms of agreement for a comment; however, that same poster and one other were the brunt of direct insults (" you are obviously homophobic", dumb, etc), based on their opposing view comments, and yet no admonishment from the editor.
Hopefully one-sided censorship is not the norm in this forum.

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Scrumpty a la cart

10:39 am on Monday, March 18, 2013

There are no FACTS that show that competition in public education improves education.

Thank you Frank. I laughed until I cried.

Class dismissed

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Sally Hansell

9:10 am on Thursday, March 28, 2013

Thanks to the Patch editors for posting this question of the week. I was astonished by the findings in the Southern Education Foundation's report and wrote a blog piece published yesterday in the Huffington Post:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sally-hansell/antigay-private-schools-georgia_b_2952162.html?utm_hp_ref=gay-voices

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